God Is Stupid

1 No one has to cite scripture to prove the Bible is true. It simply is true

2 Do you know the ways in which GOD works? He tells you in the Bible.

3 Of course believers take what the Bible says on faith. That's what we do. We're believers.

4 Your last point works just as well, if you add [Atheists] to the list.

Life is filled with dissapointments... God is one. Spending your life worshipping something that expects you to be unattainably perfect, it not worth it. Also the fact that Christianity is a theory, and I'll agree with Scientists before a Minister or preacher anyday, I don't like to be misguided.

ReyRik

Spending your life worshipping something that expects you to be unattainably perfect

Where did you get this one? It seems that since he knows we are not perfect he provided a way for us in spite of that fact.

It seems that since he knows we are not perfect he provided a way for us in spite of that fact.

Hey, that's in my Bible too!

1 No one has to cite scripture to prove the Bible is true. It simply is true

Translation: shut your mind and just believe it.

2 Do you know the ways in which GOD works? He tells you in the Bible.

Well, the Bible was written by man, so they tell you, not Him.

3 Of course believers take what the Bible says on faith. That's what we do. We're believers.

Believing something with no supporting proof isn't exactly a point in your favor.

4 Your last point works just as well, if you add [Atheists] to the list.

Yep, though 'He isn't a true Atheist' comes up far less often than 'He isn't a true Christian'

"The Bible is its own best witness" From the Source. Author James Michener.

...and it's as reliable a witness as O.J. when he tells you he was no where near Nicole on the night in question and has no idea how those bloody gloves got jammed behind his A/C unit.

What ever.

Andrew-1162039. give one evidence where it has been undeniably proved to be wrong...

Direct places where the Bible is wrong are too numerous to count: Starting at the beginning woman wasn't formed from man's rib, for one. Sexual dimorphism occurred a couple billion years before the Bible says in a distant ancestor of mans. Per the order of creation in Genesis, plants didn't come before the sun, man didn't come before animals, the earth didn't come before the sun, well lets just say the whole 7 days thing is garbage.

Jesus didn't return in the lifetime of his followers, Tyre was never wiped to dust by Nebuchadnezzar never to arise again, if Moses was stuck in a sixty mile stretch of desert for forty years he was the dumbest prophet of all time, Herod never committed mass infanticide, there were no records of earthquakes or the sun standing still or the dead walking anywhere other than the Bible despite numerous historians living in Judea during the time of Christ's supposed death and resurrection. I could go on and on, but the long and short is the Bible is certainly in no way reliable enough about anything that any of its claims should be simply regarded as accurate without some other verification.

2.11 - No disrespect intended, but how do you know?

Andrew-1162039;

let me explain how i read Genesis and see if i can straight out a little confusion.

read chapter one as god drawing up a set of plans in the order that the ideas popped up in his head and not the days that they were actually created.......

next , read chapter 2 and pay close attention .....it is not telling the sequence of creation, it is just explaining that the things were created.

GE 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (Period) that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

if you read the rest of the chapter you should take notice that the word day is never again mentioned.

in chapter one the word day is referring to the period of time in a sequence of considerations as to what to create......notice the word let is consistently repeated ..........

example;

l(let there be light) hummmmm .........let me see what i want

let me build a house

let me paint it white

let me build it in NJ

let me install mood lighting etc.

read it like that and see if it works better for you but don't forget there is indeed metaphor that you will have to wade through. best advice try to keep it real and think deeply of all the implications of what is being talked about.

if your familiar with Einsteins riding on a light beam story, you will see my point here clearly.

the bible is just describing things about reality and calling it god. they are also giving there allegorical/metaphoric interpretations of there observation of how humanity interacts with reality.

study science and make critical observations and use you common sense. put pieces together.......its a puzzle that no one completely understands.

lets put the god thingy aside and consider ??????? there's some pretty awesome weird sh-- happening here in reality, and this invisible s--t inside me, looking at it, makes it all the more weirded. so if someone wants to call this s--t supernatural, i get their point. can i or you expect everyone to ignore it, yet alone figure it out. we all give it our best shot and hope for the best. good luck on your roll of the dice if you decide to

certainly no one can figure out what reality is, and worst off, there are people that cant read a books and apply it to common sense. therefore, people, like yourself right post such as you have. but pointing out there flaws doesn't do you any good either because your being robbed of the common sense insights of the same ancient people who invented the principles of logic and critical thinking, writing, numbers,etc.. these people were no more disadvantaged then Albert Einstein, newton, etc.. every body uses there brains to figure sh--out, and everybody has one. some use theirs better than others because they don't waste time with unimportant distractions. people have guarded this book with their life, and for me, that raises my one eye a little.

andrew;

i forgot....here is a web address for the word rib and related words..... see if any fits into your scientific understanding..

http://www.visualthesaurus.com/landing/?ad=tdc.small&__utmx=-&utm_medium=small&__utmv=-&__utmk=168132513&utm_campaign=VT&utm_source=tdc&__utmz=1.1283324945.1.1.utmcsr%3D(direct)|utmccn%3D(direct)|utmcmd%3D(none)&word=rib&__utma=1.789230758.1283324945.1283344785.1283351605.6&__utmc=1&lang=en&__utmb=1.2.9.1283351618063

So the Bible doesn't mean what it says it means...it means something else. Whatever. As for the Bible having some good insight which I'm missing. I've read it. It's insight into philosophy and morals and the path to happy life is all right, but it's message is muddled and corrupted simply by being an anthology of different authors with different takes on those things, and some of those takes are down right heinous. Personally I get a lot more out of the Tao Te Ching than the Bible, but that's just me. If it helps you deal with your life knock yourself out, just don't try and feed me a line of bull and justify it by saying you found it in the Bible. That book is no more an ultimate authority or a shining light of truth than the latest John Grisham novel.

Andrew-1162039

just don't try and feed me a line of bull and justify it by saying you found it in the Bible.

now go back to your post 2.11 and explain how you where not trying to feed somebody what you think is the truth concerning the bible .were you not suggesting to some one that the way to truth was to always be mindful that the bible a bunch a s---.

i think they have a word for that....hummmm

hypocrite? or maybe a person who has decided to tell the world how much he dislikes people doing the same s--- he does? pick your favorite flavor of humiliation....that's if everything you said, is what you meant. do you think you are...............

an ultimate authority or a shining light of truth ?

now i suppose you'll dislike me all the more because i had to point that out to you?

Let's fly a gamble here, okay? If we are right, and you die as a nonbeliever, you die and roast (according to the Bible). If we are wrong, and you die as a nonbeliever, you simply die. If we are right and choose, instead, to follow the nonbelievers' points of view, we die and roast. If we follow our own beliefs, we die and sing with angels. There is a dog-chasing-tail argument here of "prove me wrong"; "no, prove ME wrong".

I'm pretty positive I can't lose by believing. Are you?

If you worked for a company whose product you questioned, would you expect them to want to retain you? Or would you expect they might let you go?

That being said, I am a believer in my God, but His name is spelled G-O-O-D. Common sense is all I have to dictate how I behave, because I am distrusting of a book translated by faulty humans over 1000 times. One dropped "thou shalt NOT" and it becomes "Thou shalt".

This thought-provoking seed is good as it helps me understand why people feel the way they do. It doesn't, however, lessen my belief that God exists. Too many amazing things in this world for me ever to disbelieve.

POaksitwithastick;

i have to agree with you on this because what i was trying to express is that the bible is observational reality, and that each person, to put is simply, sees reality slightly different...... so first understand that there cannot be more than one truth, and that being reality. the observer is the look at reality and make a choice. here are the choices....

is reality good....or is it bad..............there is a third choice that no one thinks about......

that choice is to make no decision.............that is called faith choosing to believe without judgement ......judgement is why peter sank when he tried to walk on water....he thought about what he was doing, and judgment got him......judgement doesn't save us .....it destroys us because we are weak..... we can't stop look at this experience without evaluation.

ISA 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

reality is a creator it is not the art.....reality creates the tree of good and, evil and it created, according to Genesis, three other kind of trees each relates to the mind (tree pleasant to see), body (good for food), and soul (tree of life). the tree of knowledge represents decision and judgement (bad choice because there must only be three correct choices to fill the slots of mind, body, and soul) the tree of knowledge of not good and evil was death which filled all three slots with (good mind)....(bad body)......(death soul); it was a tree of death that bore two fruits.....choices.

reality......it is beyond judgement........if you choice to judge you will be judged and found wanting.......bam!!!!! your wrong (sin). if you have your eyes set on everlasting life you want eternity which is without the ability to judge begin or end. every definition or judgement of eternity is error beyond the intuitive sense of certainty.

hence the bible is a book of faith because it instructs to believe in the certainty of realty/god, but don't judge it because you can't. if you try to define and frame reality, your practicing stupid s---- (sin)

the universe and reality is not the same thing entirely.........the universe was created and reality was not.reality is what existed before the big bang...therefore the universe and the things within it can be judged without sin.........the universe is and ejaculation of reality....an ambient images being cast in the contrast likeness of reality.

the first commandment .....thou shall not put any other god/reality before me.......the judgement of the universe are secondary to reality.....reality is the truth/certainty/god/eternity ....etc

try this interpretation and see if it makes better sense. no hell and brim stone just adivce on how to read reality........the same thing the bible was written for............peace and think for yourself but in the end just have faith......your real and you if that means truth....you aint going anywhere.....

correction.......

the tree of knowledge of not good and evil was death which filled all three slots with (good mind)....(bad body)......(death soul); it was a tree of death that bore two fruits.....choices.

the tree of knowledge of not good and evil was death which filled all three slots with (bad mind)....(death/body)......(good/soul); it was a tree of death that bore two fruits.....choices.

there that works better in my mind.......the soul doesn't die because its certain/truth/reality. the rest of the s--- is on good...............

Man created god in his own image. And that my friends IS the truth.

Can you prove it?

Because for GOD to be a creation of man means that before GOD made anything else in the Universe, time and space, a finite imperfect Man created an infinite supreme being. GOD.

How long does your science tell you man has been in existence?

The numbers don't seem to add up.

Yours ain't the only god, Rank.

Can anyone really prove either point? The answer is no.

To M-1095566

Actually disproving the Christian God is relatively easy, Evidence for a Monotheist God dates back a little over 2000 years, Polythiest beliefs date back Tens of thousands of years.

well we also need to think what the polytheistic gods were :P they were volcanoes, they were water, they were air, earth, music, rain, food. They had jackal heads, bird heads, etc.

Age doesn't mean truth.

Polytheist beliefs date back Tens of thousands of years

polytheists fractures reality into various things (god of water, fire ,etc). however one can plainly see that reality is one thingy.

example;....

1) my left side

2) my right side

3) the center of my being (truth/certainty/god)

nothing in reality is more certain to us than self.....everything else is plurality.

Yours ain't the only god, Rank.

PDeuth

So you're saying that man didn't create the One True Eternal GOD. I agree.

Now, which true eternal god are you talking about?

Rank On Rank says THIS: in 2.1

1 No one has to cite scripture to prove the Bible is true. It simply is true

AND THEN... almost IMMEDIATELY AFTER in 3.2: Spews THIS GEM at us "HEATHENS"

Man created god in his own image. And that my friends IS the truth. (From #3)

Can you prove it?

RANK... you keep running in CIRCLES like that and you are (With any kind of LUCK) going to DISAPEAR up your own SUCKHOLE!

But it's OK... Keep spewing... you bible thumpers are the "GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING"!

ROFLMAO

Many people take comfort in their religion. Many religious people are good people, fine examples, and an asset to their communities. It sucks for those people that a few got religion all twisted up with politics for some very un-religious and un-spiritual reasons. The good folks are paying for that; the twisted ones don't much care.

There's a tribal aspect to religion that is troubling. That's a systemic weakness of the god religions, especially the 1-god religions. Those religions work by providing an emotional connection and gratification which simply isn't possible without believing that your religion, alone, is the true religion, and your god the only true god. That claim makes getting along with others difficult.

I shouldn't go seeking reactions on this subject, but it's something I can't help when faced with claims of uniqueness. We're all in this mess together.

Rank On Rank says THIS: in 2.1 AND THEN... almost IMMEDIATELY AFTER in 3.2: Spews THIS GEM at us "HEATHENS"

Darrah, Your post doesn't make any sense.

I shouldn't go seeking reactions on this subject, but it's something I can't help when faced with claims of uniqueness. We're all in this mess together.

PDeuth

How's this for a reaction?

Despite their montheism, if you don't see how the GOD of the Bible is uniquely different from Allah of the Q'uran, you don't know much about either Islam or Christianity.

And that my friends IS the truth. According to ME! And PDeuth.

Count me in that too, please.

Man created god in his own image.

To be more precise, some men did. In order to mass market god better. In order to gain power better. Other people understand the depth of the wrongness of that and its destructiveness to civilization. Some of those different people are even still in religion despite how taken over and used for nefarious purpose religion has become. It is possible to find ancient people who were also as wise who knew enough to warn of it being used by the mass marketers.

If we accept the fact that we are the first beings to be capable of higher thought and to question the purpose of our existence then yes, the concept of God did not occur until man thought of Him. You can take it on faith that he existed before man and created our universe, but it's not provable or disprovable

Poaksitwithastick,

Lets' define our terms. When I say 'GOD' I mean The Creator of all things that exist, have existed, or ever will exist. That Supreme Being that was in existence prior to the Universe which we dwell in now. For man to have created Him Who was uncreated, man would have had to be here some 14+Billion years ago. Are you saying that homo sapiens is that old?

Sure there are many gods which men worship in the sense of idols. A job, a car, a laptop, may be a"god", that is, the most important thing in their life. But there is only One True GOD.

Check your science. Cosmologists recent findings are that there was definitely a singularity. And that singularity could not have come about spontaneously. But must have had a cause and that Cause by its very nature was uncaused and therefore timeless.

Also, if that First Cause which is responsible for that which we can see or detect of the universe with our senses, that First Cause must also be invisible, since it created all that is visible. That Cause must be also immaterial, since it created all that is matter and anti matter. The Universe which The Alpha GOD created is expanding endlessly ever faster which proves that this creation is on going since the initial singularity. So long as the Universe is governed by the laws of physics there can be no doubt that the Universe was created by that which transcends time and space. A Consciousness: The Creator.

Though there are some, not all, but many who do not wish to acknowledge that in the scientific community because of its implications.

Those "implications" are that there will always be something which cannot be explained, defined, quantified, or understood. It's too humbling for scientists, who believe the explanation is still out there waiting for discovery and publishing.

Every time science explains something, somebody ELSE catapults off that explanation and finds controverting alternative explanations. If an explanation cannot be proven, it's postulated.

Am I the only one who feels Him?

You all keep denying God, it's only going to be bad for you in the long run. I just don't understand where everything went wrong. People can believe in Science but not an all mighty creator. I guess we will just have to wait and see. The Bible tells of things like this happening.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. (2Timothy, 4: 3-4)

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.... (1Timothy, 4: 1)

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! (2Timothy, 3: 1-5)

The bible says a lot of stuff. Who are you to pick which parts you want to beleive and which parts you don't?

Where did he do that?

With all the ridiculous stuff the bible says it's laughable for somebody to quote it. Unless they are also willing to put their kids to death for back talk or take their own life for sleeping with a woman on her period.

Just one more time that you PROVE BEYOND A DOUBT that you have no idea what Christianity teaches, follows, believes or is.

consider it;

The story of Humpty Dumpty wasn't real, nevertheless, there is a valid point behind the rhyme. As for the bible...some of it is history and some of it is rhyme, parable, metaphor, etc.

outside of religion...........reconsider it!

Penn-2066334

I love your breakdown of Genesis and to me, that's exactly how I think of it. I'm gonna expand on it.

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that God exists. Not a Christian God which is what Christians wanna indoctrinate everybody and their uncle into. Not a Muslim God, not a God made up by people to comfort themselves in their miserable existence but a primal force.

I tend to think of God for lack of a better name as energy made up of the collective consciousness of humanity. It's a concept difficult to understand.

In essence it's a chicken and egg paradox. If God is energy, then God is matter, since they are both the same at the subatomic level. So God manipulates matter to put us into physical bodies in which we create God who continues to create us and the circle goes on and on. This is more or less what Taoism and Buddhism is based on.

So let's say this being or force inspires a human or causes a human to tap into it and receive a vision. This human in turn sits down to write a story about the beginning of the universe. How would God (again, for lack of a better word) go about it? Does He tell man all about The Big Bang and evolution in such complicated terms? Probably not. So instead, it's broken down into a metaphorical kid's tale.

"Let there be light" is simply The Big Bang.

Creation in 6 days is evolution. Not over a literal 6 days, not over 6,000 yrs like Creationists delude themselves into thinking, but over whatever amount of time it takes, because if you think about it, God is eternal, much like energy so time would have absolutely no meaning for Him.

andrew;

i used to consider it that way also, but when i considered the big bang, i had to account for what existed before it. this i call reality/god/truth/certainty....pick one, there all the same in my mind. the environment before the big bang is incomprehensible certainty in my mind as well as eternal,there for there is only one. however the universe is an ambient image/ejaculation (check out the word ejaculation means utteranceas well as the more familiar understanding). also understand that images are projections of light emitted from the object of certainty. without light.....no sight, no consciousness do to lack of revelation. the image stands at a distance in opposition to the object of certainty whereby its nature is also in opposition to the source....eternity in opposition to temporally. the temporality of the universe and all of its contents is in opposition to true certainty. the image receives its existence as a reality because of the communicated dependence upon the source.

as for reading the book of Genesis, please refer to my post somewhere around 2.9 to 2.11.....i can't remember exactly. if you find it check it out, and see if you agree. no sweet if you don't...some constructive thought of improvement or difference of opinion welcomed.

Penn and POA

I did read that post and I agree. All the Bible and many ancient texts are trying to explain is the nature of the universe in ways we can understand it. Ancient man understood far more about the universe. Think about it. The only technology they had at the time was their mind so it's all they could think about.

The the way I think about this universal consciousness is that there is no pre or post bang. Energy doesn't die. This is one of the most precious principles of physics. So if energy doesn't die, it has ALWAYS been there. You can call it God, Allah, Brahma, whatever. It makes no difference to it.

It's all a cycle. Energy and matter are all the same. Physicists have observed this at the subatomic level. So this energy manipulates itself to become matter which becomes the universe and everything in it including us and when our physical selves die, our soul if you wanna call it that, which is energy simply goes back to that primordial energy and the cycle begins again from there. Cycles within cycles. It's a paradox. Like the one about the chicken and the egg. No way to determine which came first.

In essence God creates us to create Him to create us to create Him and so on and so on and so on.

Andrew31 and POaksitwithastick;

i differ in that i am recognizing "potential energy/reality" and you are just recognizing "kinetic energy/universe".

the difference being reality= eternal potential and the universe (a creation/ not eternal) kinetic. mathematically.......

..............-3,-2, 1, 0 1,2,3............ eternity in all directions..

continuum to 0 time........0,1,2,3,........into 3 dimensional infinity and an utterly false 4th dimension called time contrast supplement version of continuum 50%. this 50/50 produces the awareness of the paradox of uncertain/certainty....the universe (kinetic) deceivingly appears more certain than the reality (potential) that created it.

i know im real but i dont know what i am = certain/uncertainty.

hows that sound?

@POA Indeed we do LOL

@Penn

I'd suggest you read about superstring theory and the implication that our universe is composed of 10 dimensions which resonate with each other like violin strings. In fact. 6 of those dimensions are entangled with each other which I suppose is where we come into the picture since we are four dimensional beings with time being one of those 6.

It's a difficult theory to grasp. Even I have trouble with it. Interestingly enough. The Zohar, an ancient Jewish text posits the exact same theory.

if those violin string are moving then they only present the 1/2 image of the full definition of energy.......where is the potently stuff at.....

possibility before probability? get what I'm saying ......if we are going to go with the energy theory we have to bring it all into play............whats that potential stuff all about...you know the stuff that's there, but it ain't moving and you can't see it........no account at all for that?

inertia (resistance to move)..... and force (resistance to stay still otherwise called motion)?

can't have orphans laying around...........or maybe you can and that's what the universe is........an orphan of realty.....separated from it's parent/god? it would be interesting to consider either way, but i still have to go with reality creates man and not the other way around....that a bit out of balance with the equation of reason.

Once again POA, very well written, except for the rape part which I don't go near but if you read the Bible, read this passage where even Jesus himself says something to this effect. I think it's profound;

Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

Buddha and Krishna who is Brahma's human avatar in Hinduism say things to the same effect. Krishna says this in the Bhagavad Guita which is an amazing book that talks about the nature of the universe.

Psalms 82 says the same thing;

"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

POaksitwithastick;

believe it or not i could go with you veiw at first glance , and surprisingly i might even agree with the rape part because i always looked at morality like this........

harry killed Bill to steal the money that bill was using to build an atomic bomb with and kill everyone......

whats morality in the face of time and events unfolding.......is there and ultimate morality?......i will give you this script that i gave earlier for your interpretion on morality...

ISA 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

it says god creates all that good and bad s--- but the artist is not the art...............so ultimate truth has nothing to do with morality outside of creating it? so.......reading this, ... your rape theory works.....its not a matter of good and bad (agrees with do not judge). the recarnation stuff, i have never given true deep thought about .......i should ,but nothing has ever moved me in that direction.

POaksitwithastick;

you see i do pay close attention to the phys. the universe favors motion and not the inerta.

inertia and motion are two sides of the same coin.

the axiom goes things that are equal to each other are equal to the same thingie.

so e=mc2....energy and matter are the things equal to each other but Albert could say what the thingie was .........so he called it equality __the equal sign

now albert also added the speed of light (motion) but gave no reference to inerta.....the potential of kinetic........potential and kinetic are two images printed on the same coin..............i want to know what the metal is and to hell with what it looks like.....

is it gold ? or silver?

in sight of the fact of Planck's constant the motion of the universe cannot be completely stopped, which suggests inequality between motion and inertia in the universe......it favors motion.......meaning there is some inertia missing.

morality....hummmm?

Bill stole Harry's money, which Harry had intended to use to build an atomic bomb and then kill everyone.

morality? hummmm

help me!!! help me!!! somebody, please help me?

I think it all depends on how one partakes the phrase "created in God's image." I mean just because we are creating in his image, does not mean we are God. I look a lot like my dad, and have a lot of his traits, but I not act exactly like him.

Gluttony

He also apparently prefers meat to grains according to the story of Cain and Abel, and required sacrifices of huge amounts of food every Sabbath throughout antiquity. For an omnipotent being who obviously needs no food for sustenance the only reason for this must be unadulterated gluttony beyond any human scale.

I am a vegetarian, but I'm also agnostic. I really don't give a damn about what a character in a book ate.

Of course God needed food. If he didn't eat, he couldn't defecate, and we know he did that. That's where the phrase "holy @!$%#" came from, after all.

;)

semi vegetarian buddhist....so I don't believe in a God and meat is too expensive to eat all the time (and Buddha ate meat so long as it wasn't killed specifically for him) :\ so 3 days a week :P

semi vegetarian

Semi vegetarian is like being semi pregnant. Either you eat meat or you don't.

False lizLiz, semi vegetarian means meat is eaten less than non-meat substances. A non vegetarian eats meat over non-meat subtsances, vegetarians eat non-meat substances and never meat substances (now we're talking protein here) and semi-vegetarians eat both (but meat less so than non-meat)

Eating and pregnancy are far from similar.

Well, he did impregnate a girl he wasn't married to

And lets not forget that this girl was probably in her early teens. So we can add sex offender to the list.

False lizLiz, semi vegetarian means meat is eaten less than non-meat substances.

You eat meat THREEdays a week. If you eat meat you're not a vegetarian. You're a meat eater. There is no shame in that, most Americans are meat eaters. I eat Ben and Jerry's Cherry Garcia about 3 times a year. For this reason, I don't call my self a vegan or a semi vegan. Either I eat animal products or I abstain. So until I stop eating my cherry garcia, I am a vegetarian not a vegan. A good read is Johnathan Safran Foer's book Eating Animals.

Eating and pregnancy are far from similar.

OK.

Humans unless willing themselves to be strictly vegans or meat eaters are omnivores. We eat everything.

I'm curious why an all powerful god created the serpent in the first place.

I'm curious why i don't have one eye in the back of my head.... so i can see whats sneaking up behind me? i guess ill have to just be careful and pay attention in other ways. Watch out for that snake behind you!!!

I'm wondering why our children are not robots, we wouldn't have to spank them when they fail to do what we want them to because it would be our fault.

im wondering why i have no desire to talk to or make love with my pillow...........?

I'm curious why an all powerful god created the serpent in the first place.

I wonder why I'm here in the first place, and that makes me pretty preoccupied.

Come back when I'm not busy.

I am curious as to What Version of the Bible says God sent the serpent?

I don't know of any version that does either... but I suspect the seeder hasn't ever even read the bible anyway... and that this thread is just his or her way of trying to hurt God because he or she wants to get back at God for some percieved wrong.

He's omnipotent and omniscient...therefore he's responsible for all things, and most certainly responsible for placing the serpent in the garden with full knowledge of the results beforehand.

I'd like to thank you very much for acknowleding the fact that I would have the power to hurt God with my words.

You're welcome, and when you grow out of your teenage type rebellion maybe we can revisit this discussion topic.

My issue is with people putting their blind faith in a belief system

Sorry but I know that's not your real issue. If it was, you would have bothered to read the bible for yourself instead of just going off of what you were told once, many years ago, by someone you thought of as religious.

issue is with people who do horrific things and invoke His name to justify them.

and why would it surprise anyone that horrible people who do horrible things would do one more horrible thing by trying to blame their other horrible deeds on God?

"Hmm, I don't recall any passage from the bible stating that God sent Satan to decieve Eve... can you show me the chapter/verse of that one?"

followed by Andrew's answer...

"He's omnipotent and omniscient...therefore he's responsible for all things, and most certainly responsible for placing the serpent in the garden with full knowledge of the results beforehand."

Ben - Did "god" create the serpent? How was "Eden" perfect while holding a malice that "god" created?

Ben, you are using the exact tactics that Poaksit is specifically criticizing.

You cannot be mad at a being that doesn't exist.

You cannot be mad at a being that doesn't exist.

Really? Then could you point out the terrorist-loving, communist, Nazi, fascist, Muslim president that the Right seems to loathe so much?
=P

what is my real issue?

Something bad happened (I wouldn't know what, or to whom) and you feel it's God's fault for not preventing it since God is supposed to be all powerful.

It's quite the hard read. Super long and doesn't flow real well if you know what I mean.

I know what you mean, but it's well worth reading cover to cover at least once. I've done so twice becuase just like with movies, there are subleties that you don't pick up on the first time through. But doing so will put you in a great position to sift B.S. from truth if and when you ever attend church. It should come as no surprise that wolves sometimes wear sheep's clothing. To tell you the truth, there's more wolves in sheeps clothing out there in church leadership positions than there isn't... and sometimes it's just painfully obvious that they have no clue what they are even talking about during their sermons.

I'm actually impressed by anyone that actually has.

Don't be, it's only a small measure of resolve.

The point I was trying to make in my article, and maybe I failed, was not that I hated God, but that I hate man and all the terrible things they are capable of. Including the way they have twisted and used for their own purposes what should be a beautiful and forgiving and loving institution.

You did not fail to make this point. People just get very defensive when their opinion is questioned and there is no explanation other than faith or belief, hence the conversation provided here.

Good article, a lot of my same questions in how god is good, but at the same time can be used as a threat. It's truly confusing.

That's Catholicism for ya. Can we say Hypocrites?

POaksitwithastick . you don't understand the difference in religion and knowing God. Religion is simply the man made coverings added to what God planned. In truth it was not religions fault but mans.

Religion is simply the man made coverings added to what God planned. In truth it was not religions fault but mans.

This is why organized religion is bad. Individuals should not congregate and have one person discussing what they believe, as their interpretation could be flawed. Books provided to support one's faith are no more than anecdotal evidence, hearsay, and should be used in conversation as such.

Ben, something did happen but I don't blame God. I blame religion. I grew up with an abusive step-father. He beat me on a regular basis as well as my mother. He ended up leaving her since she couldn't seem to get her head out of her ass, they divorced and the church ex-communicated her for that sin. At 12 years old I realized the hypocrisy of my religion. I couldn't understand how they could do that to a woman who had suffered that way. I couldn't understand and still can't how they could preach about God's forgiveness and love and then treat her that way. I realize that God was not at fault for that. It was man's judgment, not God's. The point I was trying to make in my article, and maybe I failed, was not that I hated God, but that I hate man and all the terrible things they are capable of. Including the way they have twisted and used for their own purposes what should be a beautiful and forgiving and loving institution. It's become full of hatred and judgment and that's hurtful and confusing.

So the church told your step-father to beat your mother?

So the church told your step-father to beat your mother?

He explained where he felt the church failed. Read it again if you have to. Perhaps a little slower this time.

POaksitwithastick;

without man there would be no God.

i respect your opinion/belief, but from my point of view, your statement sounds like the following.......without man there would be no reality/certainty.?

Concerned Citizen, why don't you let him answer my question and stick to your own conversations? Thanks so much.

Concerned Citizen, why don't you let him answer my question and stick to your own conversations? Thanks so much.

He did answer your question, you just looked like you needed help.

Thanks for being so Christian.

Seriously Ben, you didn't understand my story?

I understood it perfectly, and now, using the Socratic method I am going to help you understand that just like a teenager in rebellion, your anger is mis-placed... well, I'll do that IF you'll humor me and answer my questions... which you haven't yet done... so: Did the church tell your step father to beat you and your mother? Yes or no?

the answer is no

So then was the church there when he was beating you or your mother?

because I know you already know the answer to these questions.

Yeah, but I don't think you've acqnowledged the answers to them with yourself yet. Like with a horse, I can only lead you to the river, I can not drink for you. If you want to come to a realization that your anger with the church is mis-placed, then humor me by answering my questions, if you don't want to have that epiphany, then don't answer them, including that last one: was the church there inside your home watching your father beat you and your mother?

Because of the church's choice was able to pursue different paths, different beliefs, different truths.

Because of YOUR choices you were able to pursue different paths, different beliefs, different truths.

There, fixed that for ya.

That decision helped shape me into the person I am today. Unfortunately it led me away from the religion I had been born and raised with.

I can't help but notice that you think it's unfortunate. If you don't like the person you are, change who you are. You are the only person that has the power to change who you are.

It's painfully obvious, the God in any Holy Book would be greatly inept at running a "Hot dog stand," let alone Master of the Universe!

where or what is this judgemental observation you speak of?

Well - "he" did have to destroy every living thing except for twos because of the imperfections "he" created... That's a lot of genocide to correct a perfect being's mistakes.

Well - "he" did have to destroy every living thing except for twos because of the imperfections "he" created

did you ever consider that we are not robots. Furthermore, when a natural disaster claims tons of life do we say "curse the earth!!!" No, we say f---in s--t happens, and move forward......

Furthermore, when a natural disaster claims tons of life do we say "curse the earth!!!" No, we say f---in s--t happens, and move forward......

Indeed but this was no natural occurrence - this was a worldwide flood made by our creator in whose image we were made imperfect so as to need be destroyed by "him" that mankind could re-start anew and evidently we would be more like him than he created us before.

Are you really going to attempt to argue a point that cannot be proved.........

consider metaphor.......corrolation; asteroid hits the earth.... distroys most of all life .....leaves enoght to get the show started again = story of noah.

I've always wondered.... did this flood happen when the earth was still pangea? I find it hard to believe that Noah went around to all the continents and islands to pick up all the animals. I also wonder how the animals got to all the islands (non marine or flying animals of course) and continents after the flood. when WAS the flood according to bible. The bering straight went under water 11,000 years ago. So that would mean no more access from Russia since then (for those animals that can't drive/invent/ride in planes).

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/1011-whoi.html

Also found this interesting answer (can't remember the site though)

Some people have said that the flooding of the Black Sea in prehistory may be the historical basis for the Great Flood tradition. We know that the Black Sea was once an inland freshwater lake, that probably had a (relatively) large population of people living on its shores. At some point the Mediterranean broke through and rapidly flooded the lake with saltwater, theoretically causing huge disruption to the communities living on its shores. Scientists have recently taken core samples from the Black Sea bed and have determined that the ecology changed from freshwater to saltwater around 5500 BC (if i remember rightly).

Are you really going to attempt to argue a point that cannot be proved.........

consider metaphor.......corrolation; asteroid hits the earth.... distroys most of all life .....leaves enoght to get the show started again = story of noah.

But... that's not how the story goes. There were specific instructions from "god" on the arks size and dimensions. There were specific instructions on numbers to be selected. Then there were rains specifically sent from "god" to destroy the wicked... the "wicked" presumably meaning all other living things made by "god." Then there was a covenant afterwords alluding to the fact that an all perfect "god" was remorseful for "his" actions - a promise that "he" would never again destroy the world by water... I presume fire is a more merciful solution in "his" later prophecies.

why on earth would you want to take a fundamentalist interpretation seriously. what you are basing the validity of your argumentment on is a baseless interpretation, which makes your assesments equall imperfect.

consider;.....

if i say that the house burnt to the ground because of a,b,c and it turns out that the house burnt down because of d,e,f, would you say that the house didn't burn to the ground?

read the book metaphorically as it relates to reality. Jesus spoke in parables (correlations) and not directly. the prodigalson is a perfect example. there were no such individuals. they were make pretend to get a point across. think in relative terms and you will understand that the books is describing circumstancesof reality/god. reality = god.

shake your fist at reality if you what, but i tell you, it don't give a sh-- what you think or believe, but it does demand your attention. if you show it no respect, it will kick your a-- for ignoring it.

read the book metaphorically as it relates to reality.

And this may be the quote of the week... lmao...

peter peter pumpkin eater........

does this mean that everyone named peter is a pumpkin eater and has a wife and couldn't keep her?

metaphor to reality.......................thanks for the quote of the week award!!!

but it was really nothing, and i couldn't have done it without all you pumpkin eaters out there, and all those "little people"! be carefull not to step on them you literals!

WoW, didnt realize someone could stack BS that high, wonder what web site you Copy/Paste that from.

DRHunk;

be careful! there are an abundance of things that you have no idea about, and sadly, most are right in front of your nose for you to consider. But first, you must find your nose.......

never considered my mind to be a web site...............

Though the fact that More Humans have died in the name of God than any other non natural cause

the real fact of the matter is .....more people died in the name of money then religion and non natrual caused combined. i have no use for religion, but if yo dont want your money, ill take it.

no wonder your confused.....advice about god from a comedian......hummmmm?

to the author;.....

By the way, did start reading the bible. Got through quite a bit of it actually. It's quite the hard read. Super long and doesn't flow real well if you know what I mean.

Now John, that's not exactly true. God sent an angel with his magic juice to earth to magically knock her up.

and then you ask, why can't i find meaning?

read the book again, and keep in mind that we are all about as sharp as a bowling ball......

p.s. hint........ its not a comic book.

poaksitwithastick;

stranger things have happend......consider intelligent life from a rock........sounds like pure science fiction to me. and here we are; me, you, and everyone else talking about how unrealistic we are? now for me that is unbelievable.

you figure it out because that is the most convincing way. i cant tell you what the truth is, but i will tell you that there is some strange s--- happening when you consider where we came from so............you just got to wade through all the s---.

i prefer to consider the odds because there is no real certainty outside of self. above all things, in know i am real and as true as truth can be. anything outside of that is questionable. even a schizophrenic knows they are real.

when we consider the odds it becomes more palitable to consider that there is something more to life than meets the eyes..and in the face of eternity the odds are that even weirder s--- is in store

unlimited reality = unlimited possiblities......keep your head in order because your dreams my come true..........peace, love, and the endless possiblities for ever and ever and ever .............

If there is a God, ...I think He/She/It is far greater than those who wrote the Bible could have ever imagined.

Yes, GOD is magnificently greater than all His works. However, the Bible contains GOD's thoughts and perspective as He dictated them to humanity

The mind of man is limited,

And yet so many men think themselves capable to judge, criticise and even blaspheme GOD.

but the mind of God would have to encompass every single thing in existence. That would be an awful lot to encompass,

Truly.

so it's very possible that God might not be concerned with the lives of the people on Earth,

If He were not concerned about the lives of people on earth, He wouldn't have revealed Himself through the prophets of the Bible. He wouldn't have sent His Son Jesus Christ to redeem humanity and pay our sin debt. He wouldn't have told Jesus to teach us to pray to Him and call Him "FATHER"

but instead focusing on holding the fabric of existence together.

The Words GOD spoke which cause the universe to come into being have not lost an iota of power. God is not focused on holding the fabric of the universe together. That was settled at the Big Bang.

Who knows what it's like to be God or some kind of deity? It may be extraordinarily taxing.

Really, you think being Eternal Infinite All Powerful and All Knowing would tire you out? Well not GOD. The true knowledge of GOD is only revealed by the Bible

^{Isaiah 40:28} 'Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, does not faint or grow weary; there is no searching of His understanding.'

Hey, RoR. Good to see you. Once again, you've given me some things which are certainly thought provoking. Religion is like that. And honestly, who doesn't want to believe in something greater than themselves? It can be comforting, in a way, I suppose. Interestingly enough, though I'm not entirely sure if it correlates to what you're saying, I've always loved camping, but one of the things I never particularly cared for was sitting out by a lake at night and looking up at the sky. Sure, it's pretty, but you've got one unknown above and one unknown below, and all there is inky blackness. Even though I believe there's something after this life, it's always been somewhat disquieting not knowing. It's hard to comprehend what there could be when you're staring into an unfathomable sky and an unfathomable lake, each mirroring the other.

Druswid,

It was a nice surprise to find your post, too

It's hard to comprehend what there could be when you're staring into an unfathomable sky and an unfathomable lake, each mirroring the other.

I like the way you phrased that.

Thank you, RoR. Sometimes I like to wax poetic... and sometimes I find a measure of truth in said poetry. Truthfully, when I was camping up in Maine (which was actually the second week of August, and I wish I were still there), I felt such utter peace and relaxation at getting away from what I'm usually doing. I spent four glorious days on a lake surrounded by pines, with my family, mostly just reading and canoeing. The wildlife was awesome as well; two moose, some blue herons, lots of talkative ducks, loons, and even a bald eagle. It was honestly the best trip I'd taken in years. Now I just have to find some time to get away again before fall really sets in. On the subject of poetry... I used to be something of a poet in high school. I think it was mostly hormones, though. I never drank or took drugs, so I got everything out in words. Then, of course, I got out of high school, and the well of inspiration just kind of dried up. Ah, well.

You definitely have a gift, Druswid

Cultivate it.

Perhaps... I was an English major, after all. Reading has always been my strong point, and I was at least decent at essays on Shakespeare and in writing down my thoughts about short films in my literature and film class. That was a great one. I even wrote a screenplay for that, and the professor loved it. I've also started writing down some blog entries on tumblr at the insistence of a friend. It's kind of fun. Mostly I just write whatever I'm thinking about at the time. Still, on the poetry front, I don't really know a lot of turmoil, so I don't have a whole lot of inspiration for my writing. Sometimes I think I've just got an inner stillness that's mostly very content. In high school though, I was rather awkward, and hadn't come into myself as much as I have now. Plus, I wrote all my poetry in study group, considering the only thing I actually needed help with was math, and I didn't have work for that all the time...

Still, on the poetry front, I don't really know a lot of turmoil, so I don't have a whole lot of inspiration for my writing.

Dru

There are a great many poems about serenity and peace. You were inspired by the lake for example. Still, if you want more turmoil to come into your life, I am a Christian, I could pray for you to have turmoil till it overflows,lol.

Maybe not though, huh?

Inspirationally speaking, go with the flow. If what you create matters to you, you have a gift to make it matter to someone else.

Once again, you have a point. I could make it matter to somebody else... to the friend who asked me to make the tumblr page, I think it does. I don't think I need the turmoil, though, but the offer was generous. :P As far as prayer goes, I think the best and most honest prayer is one for peace, to all people, all over the world. I've prayed for peace myself a few times here and there. If there's one thing the world really needs, it's peace.

I think the best and most honest prayer is one for peace, to all people, all over the world. I've prayed for peace myself a few times here and there. If there's one thing the world really needs, it's peace.

Amen.

This is a problem area for me as well. You can be the most horrific of people, murderer, rapist, child molestor, etc. and all you have to do is ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus and you're absolved?

Yes, I believe that even the most hardened and despicable of criminals can be saved if they have a genuine change of heart. It's not as if you can say the magic words and be saved, you do have to mean it and, as is mentioned in Proverbs, "the Lord knows the heart".

What's the point of living a good, loving life? I can sin until the cows come home but I'll be forgiven? Why should I be virtuous? Where's the incentive?

Martin Luther said, "We are justifed by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone." If one truly has given their heart to Jesus, then we can expect that committment to manifest itself in good works and morality. Does that mean that you will be perfect and not sin? Of course not. Everyone stumbles and everyone will experience temptation but a honest Christian will still make an effort to be good and faithful. So to answer your question, a Christian is virtuous because he wants to be that way.

But a person who calculates that I will sin and sin and sin for my own gratification and then just ask Jesus for forgiveness is not demonstrating the kind of heart that would truly receive Christ's forgiveness.

Thanks.

So, if the bible is a work of fiction, then god is a fiction as well

humpty dumpty is a work of fiction, nevertheless, in makes a valid point.

Hard to believe, but here in the 21st century there are still those who believe the nonsensical stories.

i find it harder to believe that the concept of metaphor, parables, and poetry is way over the heads of most people who consider themselves smart.

Ancient, ignorant, superstitious people.

so easy a caveman can do it?

who invented numbers?

who invented the alphabet?

who invented the wheel?

who first engaged in idea of civilization?

who developed language?

don't pick on my caveman buddies!, and run from people who wear white collars.....

last place I thought I would see reference to Six Sigma....I works though.

Not afraid...

I'm curious to know if you have prayed for something and it came to be...and, if so, would you share your experience?

I ask because if you have prayed and god said yes to your prayers, then it appears that you have stumbled onto something unique, rare and very valuable. If you could share your technique with the parents of our troops who are praying for the safe return of their son or daughter I am absolutely sure they would be most appreciative (too late, however, for the over 4000 of our men and women whose loved ones prayed for them and god said no). Or how about the parents of a young child with brain cancer or some other terminal disease...a child whose short life has been one of painfully endless days and nights of needle-poking and nauseating chemotherapy. I bet they would like to hear how you have come to get your prayers answered.

I don't know how your perfect god would have to be worshipped and prayed to in order for him to come to the aid of a terminally ill child, but I think this is where the "he works in mysterious ways" part comes in.

And while you are at it, could you please help me figure out where hell is supposed to be nowdays? I think it was supposed to be in middle earth somewhere, but in light of today's science that sounds just a tad improbable. If I had to guess, I would place it underneath any one of a thousand buildings with the fancy colored windows and the christian torture symbol on top.

A little help if you will to a curious atheist.

To Andre

I cannot speak for not afraid, but can speak for myself. I was in a very dark place at one time, while I believed in the Christian God when growing up I thought the Christian God was worthy of nothing but disdain based upon the bible. Our family history going back for several generations showed that we were under some kind of protection.

From before my grandfather in WWII and onward there have been unexplainable things that have happened, multipule cases where someone should have died but did not, where accidents have occurred where great bodily harm should have been done but resulted in only minor injuries.

From cases where the entire family except for my dad were in a station wagon that had ran out of gas and was on the side of the road, when a drunk driver rear ended us at such a speed that while in park and with the parking brake on, our skid marks went over 100 feet and the worst injury to us was glass cuts.

To me rolling a big truck at 65 mph in Oklahoma on a dark curve. I personally have survived laying down a motorcycle at 65 mph on an interstate in CA skidding hundreds of feet on my belly, and picking up my motorcycle and riding it home with nothing more then severe road rash. I fell off of a cliff on the back side of Norad and spent 5 1/2 hours hiking out with a badly fractured ankle, sprained ankle both wrists badly sprained and a concussion.

In a rain storm that was so severe that it shut down 3 of the 4 gates going into Ft Carson Colo. I have survived dozens of dark side attempts to die including walking into mexican bars with a bowie knife on my side and insulting senoritas. Trust me I have survive my dark side moments beyond belief. When I should not have survived the first ones.

I was once in my bedroom when 4 Santa Ana police officers kicked in my door all with guns drawn and I stood there in my underwear wondering for 5 to 10 seconds if I could get to the bowie knife on my desk before they could put me down. How I survived my dark side moments let alone the car and truck accidents and other things that have happened to me is beyond my understanding.

When I was finally brought into the faith I became a Christian and soon found the contradictions and inconsistencies contained in the bible and in Christianities beliefs did not relate to the Overwhelming Love that I had felt when I was brought into the faith. The only reason I am still alive is that something has taken an interest in me for some reason, I call this something my God.

In most of the cases where someone is brought into their faith that I have heard, are when they are on the edge of the abyss. When they are riding the edge of life and sanity when they stand on the abyss of death and insanity and at the last second are called back from the edge by something, when they have an overwhelming sense of Love that engulfs them, when they are overwhelmed by the sense that yes they are ok, and yes things will get better.

I had been writting a manuscript on the bible for years and was simply sitting on it, not planning to do anything with it, when as a truck driver I was given a ticket for doing 75 in a truck restricted 55 mph area, it was an honest mistake it was a construction site that I thought I was out of but was not out off it and I had a nice little Tennessee State Trooper waiting at the base of the mountain for me.

And it was on my birth day no less, So when I reached Memphis Tennessee, I called the company and informed them of the ticket since it was for 20 mph over the posted speed limit they immediately disqualified me from driving and my Co driver took us back into CA on his own. At 20 mph over the posted speed limit it was an immediate suspension of my licence by DOT upon conviction.

So the company put me on a safety hold, which means I was out of work, I was facing a DOT suspension of my license, so I hired a law firm that specializes in big truck tickets, I wrote the Judge admitting my mistake and why, at six months after I went from a safety hold to termination, the Judge at six months said that if I got no more tickets within three months then the ticket would be expunged.

Now during this whole episode I was praying to my God as to why. I had told my supervisor that I had consider this job a Gift from God, I did not even meet the two years of experience needed to apply, but an ex co driver recommended me and I got the job originally. I could not understand why my God would grant me this job in the first place just to take it away from me three years later. And the answer I came up with was my manuscript, so I cashed out my retirement accounts and savings accounts, and paid 12,750 dollars to publish my manuscript on the bible.

At nine months after the ticket, it was expunged, I reapplied to the company and was rehired at the same base pay that I had before. Just two months before a hiring freeze was put into place. I then worked another three years before my roll over in Oklahoma, Now since then things have sucked but I still have my faith in my God that first brought me into his faith.

Do I believe that a God exists, Yes. I believe that I have received all of the personal and individual evidences and proofs that at least one God exists, Does this evidence and proofs mean a damn thing to anyone else, of course not. The Gods if they exist are personal and individual Gods they accept individuals into their Faiths, and they seem to accept the most damaged of individuals, but the Gods are only important to those individuals. Is my God important to me, Yes, Is my God important to anyone else, of course not.

Gods are only important to those that they have brought into their faiths. And wanting to be a follower of the Gods seems to be something that a normal person should not want for it is the most hurt, the most damaged, the most lost that the Gods want as followers. I can not see why a normal, happy and contented human would want a relationship with a God. For the price for that relationship seems to be riding the edge of the abyss, riding the edge of sanity and of life itself.

I cannot understand why any sane and happy person would want a belief in a God.

mark;

I had been writing a manuscript on the bible for years and was simply sitting on it,

interested in what you wrote about concerning the bible.

is it interpretive?

does it involve science, w.philos.?

new or old testament?

see post #9

You know Penn

It amazed me when I was going through the O/T to find the truth and found nothing but lies, I figured when I got to the N/T I would find less lies and decent, and in the end I found just as much. It involved nothing more then common sense.

Penn if you wish to spar with me you should at least check out my column, Christianity is evil from it's very foundations. There is nothing that redeems it in the eyes of the Gods.

Mark,

Sounds like what you are talking about as your god is the same thing some people consider to be their guardian angel or just plain luck. In any case, it appears to work for you. Thanks for sharing.

Mark is probably just a really big guy, the total "Biker" image. I personaly rear-ended a Dodge minivan in a Honda Accord going 60 MPH down PCH and I walked away with some bruises, the mini van was thrown to the top of the shoulder embankment from the inside lane. The driver walked away with some bruises and a sore back. It is not an angel or a God or anything else that saved you in that accident or all those times you tempted fate, its was your build, peoples fear of you, and good old fashioned structural engineering.

The only thing that happened to you is you hit the bottom as so many that have no direction or purpose in life do and so you found purpose and direction in religion. Thats what the main purpose is though, to help people understand how to live a life that contributes to society and help others. Bible = Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth and you are right it is nothing but commen sense.

These kind of discussions are pointless

That depends, if even one person of faith stumbles their way onto one of these discussions and gets the message just enough to rationally question and gain the courage to venture "outside" then maybe, just maybe they might find the truth.

I believe that it will take generational processes before theistic religions are all but gone but in the mean time maybe these discussions can help usher a few along.

if even one person of faith stumbles their way onto one of these discussions and gets the message just enough to rationally question and gain the courage to venture "outside" then maybe, just maybe they might find the truth.

and you know the truth?

I'm a reader of the bible, science, philosophy, and anything related to reality, and have been doing so for a very long time, and from a scientific point of view, there is 90% of the universe that we cant see. and of the 10% that we can see, we are still baffled as to why.

and yet you say you know the truth? some of the stuff people say will never stop amazing me.

afraid,

thats what I mean by this being pointless, what makes you think that you have a clue what truth is?

And the same goes for religious believer guy?

Both are convinced and waste their time trying to convince the other guy of the error of their way, who likewise thinks your a moron as well, and blind as well.

You see.....its pointless textual masturbation. Hope it was good for you.

now now;

there is one thing and one thing only that we know is certain........self. believe in yourself and you believe in reality=god. don't believe in what i tell you..........only believe in yourself and there you will find god/reality/certainty/truth/gold.

what you make of yourself, is what you make of reality. if you believe in stupid s---, reality seems stupid. if you think yourself meaningless then reality appears meaningless.

peace and love brothers and sisters.........peace and love.......grab hold of it and dont let go.

Penn

back n black

and you know the truth?

Yes I do.

Not wanting to immerse into a scientific vs religious debate because it ultimately ends in a redundant philosophical-quick-sand discussion (which I THOROUGHLY enjoy)...

When I do not know the answer; that is my answer. I do not lie to myself or others by assigning a supernatural explanation.

We are gaining knowledge at an exponential rate and hopefully someday we can explain the universe, until then I have tremendous awe for the completely NATURAL mysteries that occur constantly.

It's a bigger miracle that it's not a miracle.

peace and love brothers and sisters.........peace and love.......grab hold of it and dont let go.

I just like this.

not afraid-1148086

I do not lie to myself or others by assigning a supernatural explanation.

i don't think,....rather, i know i didn't use the word supernatural. so.....i will leave that up to you to explain where it came from.

We are gaining knowledge at an exponential rate and hopefully someday we can explain the universe

i was wondering if you happened to notice that the closer we get to explaining the universe the more we have to throwout what we thought were the answers?

It's a bigger miracle that it's not a miracle.

yea, there is a reason for everything in my mind as well.......no such thing as a miracle, nevertheless, there is some really crazy weird S---- going on here when you really sit down and think of it rationally. i don't care what you call it.....it's all reality to me......

Venator;

did you thoughts fall off of a cliff...........................this what?...(fill in with a noun or two or are we suppose to use some sort of thiest/atheist religious telepathy).

Sorry Penn, but I really think that is the golden, number one rule we should all live by. I do not think any else has to be said.

afraid,

You confuse "being convinced" that you know the answer with actually "knowing" the answer. You still demonstrate nothing but a self-overevaluation of what you think you know, in fact, in light of your last comment, I would say you are prone to being afflicted with dillusions on a regular basis. But thats not an insult, its just a normal natural condition of most any man or woman.

The religious and not religious are prone to this, having an over estimation of self that they equate what they have come to be persuaded to believe as true for themselves; as being the same thing as being absolute truth and universal on the same level as say....1+1=2. Then you want to beat up other people into submitting to your own delusions about truth, which you present as Absolute and are insincere enough to actually say that:

When I do not know the answer; that is my answer

That statement is impossible to believe in light of what else you have said, otherwise you wouldnt have said anything in the first place. All you are doing is attacking with your presupposition and they with theirs, and its good entertainment, like watching old good cartoons, but its of no real value, and is a waste of time, especially about God.

I agree that we don't have all the answers for how we got here, but how did an invisible man in the sky become an option? Why not the flying spaghetti monster or the invisible pink unicorn (blessed be her holy hooves)?

because we are looking in all the wrong places.............by the way that spirit thingy in you is an invisible guy/girl/it.

theres that flying spaghetti monster reference again..........

hey while we are at it,,,,how about god career, or god money, or god power, prestige, god sex, or god drugs or alchohol, or god smartass? Wait a second, I just described the pillars of American culture today!!!! OMG!!! The gods walk among us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you neglect to consider that reality is endless (1,2,3,4.......), which means that anything is possible.

consider....

13 billion years ago, would you have had any reason to believe that life would emerge from what you saw.

now consider eternity is endless in all directions.....what are the odds that your dreams wont come true? 1:eternity?......hence, the endless odds are in favor that yours and everyone else's dreams will come true.

peace and love brothers and sisters ....prepare your mind for what you want ...pleasent dreams....love and peace.

I knew I was going to like you stick. Keep poking.

Vlad's dog and POaksitwithastick

more truth in the question than the answer!!!

Keep poking.

I'm always asking why i can ask why.........and the answer that i receive is the incomprehensible reason,.... which tells me....hmmmm?.... what ever it is ............................. it's f---in awesome!!!.. and it apparently means f---in business.....

And God never does stupid things?

23.1 - I will never, ever question the one who gives me life because if He can do that...can you? Scientists are leaning that humanity on Earth is unique - no other planet in that vast solar systems being discovered in deep space has life or even indication of life thus far.

How can any human alive on this planet question that we are unique or that there is a higher authority which created all things on this planet. In the history of the world, has any human equaled God, all His glory and all His power?

Can humans create an original living cell?

Can humans create an original living cell?

They are getting pretty damn close, it is only a matter of time.

Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life

No.....they are starting with "

Szostak’s protocells are built from fatty molecules that can trap bits of nucleic acids that contain the source code for replication.

I will never, ever question the one who gives me life because if He can do that...can you?

Nice try. Now here's the question again - Does God ever do stupid things?

The only thing I can thing of might be to have given some men free will.

I have to admit, that I to have notice that. Not to show disrespect for what was done, I much rather prefer to him as a "supreme being", with unlimited powers.

Adam and Eve said, 'Lord, when we were in the garden, you walked with us every day. Now we do not see you any more. We are lonesome here, and it is difficult for us to remember how much you love us.'

And God said, I will create a companion for you that will be with you and who will be a reflection of my love for you, so that you will love me even when you cannot see me. Regardless of how selfish or childish or unlovable you may be, this new companion will accept you as you are and will love you as I do, in spite of yourselves.'

And God created a new animal to be a companion for Adam and Eve.
And it was a good animal
And God was pleased.

And the new animal was pleased to be with Adam and Eve and he wagged his tail

And Adam said, 'Lord, I have already named all the animals in the Kingdom and I cannot think of a name for this new animal.'

And God said, 'I have created this new animal to be a reflection of my love for you, his name will be a reflection of my own name, and you will call him DOG.'

If Adam and Eve were the first humans created and we are descended from them then how come we're not all severely disabled and sick from the long-term inbreeding?

TruettCollins;

don't recall reading that part in Genesis...............

after considering it, i was wondering if you ever told that store to a little girl/boy who was mulled by a dog?

forgot sarc......

I have given it much thought, I don't know what I would have done, if faced with that situation.

Edward,

After witnessing the suffering and depravity of humanity separated from GOD, you really would give a second thought to eating from the tree of knowlegde after GOD told you NOT to?

I believe in God, and for everything that has happened, has done so for a reason.

Amen.

How about witnessing the suffering and depravity of humanity NOT separated from god? Like hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, etc. If you can give god credit for the pretty butterflies, rainbows and sunsets then you have to give him credit for the rest as well.

Here's an interesting point made by Mark Twain regarding the suffering of man. Why is it that in those places where man suffers most (starvation, disease), man shows up to help and god gets the credit. How about those places where god has the field all to himself and man doesn't show up? Well, that's easy...they die miserable, painful, slow deaths. Why, because there is no god.

So, in the face of all the evidence that there is no god (think small child getting brain cancer), and no evidence whatsoever of his existence, you still believe in him? Must be faith...and Twain was right again when he said, "faith is believing what you know ain't so."

Andre,

First let me tell you you sound bitter and miserable. Second, why would anyone believe in what they know "ain't so"?

People have been martyred because of their faith. Life today is to complex to fool with something that doesn't work. GOD answers my prayers and questions, and those of countless others through out the world.

You have decided to believe that there is no god, fine. You enjoy the consequences of that decision. You have asked a lot of questions in the above post. I could answer them, but that seems less important to you than you being able to trust the words of Mark Twain. He's dead right?/sarc

Okay...

One of the above questions asked of those of you whose prayers have been answered was to (1) share what you prayed for and how it came to be, and (2) reconcile how he answered your prayers and says no to someone else. What vanity!!! You are so special in his eyes that he decides to change his plan, just for you because you got on your knees and begged and pleaded, and let the little kid in the hospital bed die a miserable death after a short, miserable life. Do you hear yourself? If you are so christian, how about sharing your prayer tecninque?

Just because I call you on your inane belief system I'm supposed to be bitter? It's more that I am stunned by the stupidity of those who won't use their brains and think for themselves. It's the 21st century, try to keep up.

Prayer is always answered, some times yes, some times no. The difference being, ones prayer must be aligned to God's will, and they can only be in that alignment if they are first living their life under his guidance. I remember when I was in a wheel chair and being told by Doctors that I would be there for the rest of my life. I prayed every day and night for healing and the answer was no, or not right now because you are not ready. That all turned around when I hit bottom and my prayer became that God would use me to his Glory how ever I was, in a chair or not. Today I am walking and doing my best to follow his guidance. (BTW the doctors still say there is no way I should be walking).

I believe in God, and for everything that has happened, has done so for a reason.

Who created God and what was the reason for God's creation?

Prayer is always answered

Lying is a sin, remember.

If prayers are always answered then why haven't the people in the Congo, Sudan and Somalia's prayers to bring them out of that hellhole been answered?

Auteur 1536

Who created God and what was the reason for God's creation?

what created reality and what was the reason reality created the universe?

if you can't answer the question, are you saying reality doesn't exist?

If so, i would not share such ideas with anyone in the

Psychiatric community!

TruettCollins;

(BTW the doctors still say there is no way I should be walking).

i say almost the same thing as your doctors.......there is no logical reasoning that is acceptable to conclude that life,..........and then add intelligence, .........could come out of S--- floating in space. it dont make any sense.......hope you start running soon......peace and love

Oh....I'm at an age that I don't worry about running, but thank God daily that I am walking.